The Orchid Source - Orchid Forum

I'm thinking of buying a little greenhouse to use for the spring, summer and fall here on the tundra. Probably a 6 x 8 or a little larger to fit in an area that doesn't have overhanging trees and decent light. And probably just level out an area for the base, rather than use poured cement - maybe use river rock with cement blocks down the middle. A lot of my high light stuff will go on the patio, though. Like vandas and the like. And I have lattice stuff for mounts.

Are there any web site that I should go to? I found this, and I like the 8 ft. wide one.

greenhouse

Does it look sturdy enough for winters here? I sure wouldn't mind keeping the snow off the top in the winter just to have this available in the summer. I wouldn't have to worry about never ending rain from time to time.

Looks like it has vents and stuff - but - does this look like the type that would do well in Mn.? And what's the difference between the clear panels and the not clear panels and which would be best? Also - would I need a fan set up of some kind or would the venting system be sufficient as it is? It gets so hot and humid here in the summer, that I can't believe a fan wouldn't be necessary.

Thanks. Any help would be appreciated.

Don't forget that the smaller the volume the faster they heat up and cool down. They are harder to control the temps inside. I'm pretty sure you would need a fan and automatic vents.

Pook is correct.

At first glance, the 6 x 8 greenhouse looks ok. However, it comes with only one roof vent and apparently does not have an auto-opener. You will definately need an auto-opener, Two roof vents would be better. You will also need at least one large fan circulating the air inside the greenhouse, and you should get some Aluminet shadecloth for shade and to cut the summer heat.

Here's a website in Illinois that looks to offer some of the same things and appears to have a much better price on the 6 x 8.

Greenhouse MegaStore

Thanks, you two. I'd forgotten about the size thing, Pook. Thanks - and I love your new signature line.

Ed - thanks for the link. From briefly looking at it, it looks like the 8' one I like from my link has more vents and an auto vent. But I will cruise that web site later to look at all the models. . Will definitely look into shade cloth - I forgot to think about that. The place I have in mind gets quite a bit of morning sun, but not much afternoon sun at least until 'til after 2-3. That's why I put my sun lovers on the patio - full sun.

Do you think it looks sturdy enough for the tundra? With the freezing and heaving of the ground, would I be better off putting the frame on a row of stone, at least?

Jo, if you've decided to do it up right, put in at least one louver and
an exhaust fan. It's not that costly and you'll be glad you did it.
Concerning the type of foundation and flooring, I'd suggest that you
put a good solid foundation...put that sweet son of yours to work
digging a trench and put some cinder blocks, just a couple of rows
maybe. Then you can put down some landscape fabric and gravel
to keep weeds under control which will help with control of critter
infestation. A small gh like the one in your link can become an oven
in a surprising short time even with shade cloth. Oh, and get the
biggest gh you can afford, girlfriend. They fill up quickly, you know.

Now I'm thinking about the 8 x 10 or 12. Not that much price difference, really. Do you see the ventilation thingy in the front left of the little house? Would I put a fan there to make use of that vent? Or do I have to mount it up somewhere? It seems like that would be the only place to put it, although they say there is another one somewhere. And the one I like has an auto vent plus several more vents. AND - they come with shelves, although I can't figure out how many. Oy. That shouldn't be a problem, though.

Thanks for the input, Angela. I just may take a couple of print outs to OL and see what they think. They are also so helpful. I was thinking, like you said, of landscape cloth/plastic and a row of blocks down the middle. And now something to place it on, rather than the ground only. I have no idea how to fasten it to the blocks around the perimeter, though, or if that is even possible. Have no idea how much it weighs or if wind could move it about or damage it. We do get big winds here from time to time.

Hmmmmm - found this. Looks like I have a wee bit of work for preparation.

http://www.igcusa.com/Catalogs/Greenhouse-Foundation-Design.pdf

Jojo, our vents are in the front like that, but the fans are in the rear of the greenhouse. They are the large belt-driven types you see on larger greenhouses. They work very well and pull air through the greenhouse. Normally we only use 1 of the two fans, unless it's an extremely hot day. Two fans=major wind tunnel.

The vents both have different opener systems. The one on the left is the solar type, so it opens according to heat, and works w/o elecricity. This is the "fail safe" vent, as it is much simpler mechanically and if the motorized one fails, this vent should still open.

The other is a motorized vent opener attached to a thermostat. Stage 1, vents open. Stage 2, 1 fan comes on low.... and then increases from there according to temp.

As for the foundation prep.... I think that took about the longest....(other than the permitting process...and inspections) However, if you want your greenhouse to stay there for a period of time, and to weather your climate, it's worth it to put the work into the foundation. If you don't fasten it down, it WILL blow over with the types of winds you get up there. When you install it, install it as a permanent structure. It's not worh it to skimp.

Also, is this only for seasonal (summer) usage or winter as well? If it's for winter usage, consider getting the best insulated stuff you can possibly find. Polycarbonate is available triple wall, 5 wall, etc., and those insulate better than standard double wall.

Either way, make sure your kit house is strong enough to hold a snowpack if necessary (I've known people in my region have them collapse under the big snows we get every 5 or so years, so not all are strong enough!), or has a steep enough roof angle to shed most of the snow.

Another source for stuff you can use in a greenhouse (they have kits too) is Farm Tek.

edited because I can't type on this blasted laptop.....

Thanks. No - it will not be a four season greenhouse. Just for use in the spring, winter and fall. I just want a nice structure to have my plants in, especially since I can control the watering and such. I am starting to worry about the heat, though. I don't know if the one I'm looking at would have a spot in the rear for a fan - it needs to be vented to the outside, right? Would I have to cut a panel and install it? And would that void the warranty, or do you think there really is something cut out for one? Looks like I'll have to call the greenhouse people with questions, and hope I get someone knowledgeable.

And the one I'm looking at says it can handle 1000+ lbs. of snow - but then it says it hasn't been load tested. Hmmmmmm. Like I said, I'd roof rake it in the winter.

And thank you for the link. And for all the good information. Will research that one as well. To build an all season green house up here, the OL folks said it would be at least $100,000. Needless to say......... My basement works just fine for winter.

I am going to drag whatever I choose into the city before I buy it, just in case I really need permits and stuff. Because I would take it with me, I think, if I moved. I will put in a foundation, but I'd have to make sure that I can fasten it properly without voiding any type of warranty.

If it hasn't been load tested, I wouldn't trust it. (how do they know for sure it can take 1,000 lbs?)

You can build a small hobby greenhouse for a heck of a lot less than 100K that can take your climate. Now, a large greenhouse setup for a business is a different story, but that's on an entirely different scope.

We looked at the kits and because of questions of strength, sizing (none of the sizes were quite right for the weirdly sized spot we had) and ability to modify, we ended up designing and building from scratch. The only labor costs were the guy down the road who has a backhoe and dug out the 6' deep hole for the foundation. (so, it took a lot longer than a kit to go up!)

When designing it, tons and tons of sites were researched, and of course we had to go by the local code. To say it's overbuilt is an understatement. The roof has a 6x6 along the ridge, and 2x6 every 12" on center. There are also two 6x6 columns that add additional support to the roof. They rest on cement footers. The outside shell is twinwall poly. There's better stuff available now, and whenever it's time to change out the shell, we'll use that. Inside, there is a layer of polyethylenene plastic so there is a 6" dead air space in between the twinwall and the plastic sheeting- just a bit more insulation.

I think some of the farmtek kits come equipped with small fans, but I'm not sure, it's been a long time since I've looked. Yes, you can cut the poly, but you would need to add bracing as just sitting the fan on the poly w/ no support wouldn't be good. I remember that we liked a couple of the more cape cod type designs that had taller roofs that shed snow better (they are actually why the steep roof was incorporated into our GH)

As for heating, you have lots of choices (you'll need some heat for nights during spring and fall). Part will depend on what is cheapest in your area. Our electric is not regulated, so it's INSANELY expensive. In some states it is much cheaper. We did propane because we already had a 500 gal tank for the house. In your case, you could do electric, propane, natural gas (if available).... there are some nicer unvented gas greenhouse heaters that would probably work nicely for a small space. Our setup wouldn't make sense for a very small greenhouse (hydronic- we have a boiler in the basement and pipes run underground to the GH to two rows of finned baseboard radiators) as it is much more expensive to set up.

Since you will be using it in the summer, you will need to think about shading. You can use cloths like aluminet, or the old spray on shading. The aluminet is available in different % of shade so you can pick how much. The spray coating is done by hand and can be layered if more is needed. Again, because it's summer and it still gets quite hot up there (I'm thinking back to summers on my grandparents' farm in Beltrami) you really need good venting. A small greenhouse can heat up (and cool down) very quickly!! It just doesn't have enough mass to retain temp. for a long period. I'd say you need a front vent, and definitely ridge vents, and one good fan to pull air through the greenhouse.

I'll try to look for some of those old sites. Definitely keep talking to the people at OL. We wouldn't have been able to do ours w/o help from TLG.

Jojo, you should be able to get a greenhouse for less than 100K. I put on a second story all glass all-season conservatory addition for half of that and it required new foundations (and the floating of the back end of my house). Admittedly, I didn't have plumbing installed, but my bathroom is down the hall. And I live in a very expensive area, so I'm sure I got charged a premium on labor. I think 100K is way overpriced.

A couple info links:

Kits (nice but expensive) Redwood Kits

General info

Solar Greenhouse info (basically how to incorporate heat sinks, etc)

Planning and Building a Greenhouse

Greenhouse info

There's no really good way to do cheap even with just seasonal use.
We built my 12' x 28' gh from scratch as well which spread the cost
out over a period of three months and we had an electrical engineer
do the wiring so that the louvers and fans are controlled by a thermostat as is the heating. I can just set it and forget it. The automatic controls are especially good for you since you're gone
during the day. However, 100,00.00 is waaaay outta line for a hobby
gh. I think our total cost with footers and concrete floor was only
a bit over 6,000.00.

Those pretty pictures online and in catalogs of nice little gh just sitting
in the yard are seller's fantasy. Do a LOT of research; you've got the
time starting about now to be ready by spring to get decisions made
and begin construction when you've bought your kit.

I'm rootin' for ya, sistah!

Think "Minnesota" for the $100,000 price tag and one that operates year round and is more of a "working greenhouse" than a hobby one. And I think he was talking about running electrical, plumbing work, the proper foundation with heat sinks and the like as well as the bells and whistles needed to alert you to a complete disaster. Here - last winter - 5 people OL knew lost their ENTIRE collections (some very old) in fancy, schmancy green houses with all those bells and whistles. I don't want heaters and stuff - just something easy to work in on some level in the summer. I'm pretty aware of when things can go out and when they need to come in. I don't need to pot in there - my patio works just fine for that. I've replaced only about 100 orchids so far, so I do need SOME room for additions.

Hmmmm - $6000 isn't bad, Angela. Is that EVERYTHING, including the greenhouse - or just the prep work?

I'm pretty sure OL will be a wealth of information on this ( hope), and may even know a local/company person here that can actually do this for me. I can't find anything in the phone book except for solariums and conservatories and I don't want either - except they are lovely. (((Sigh))) - but they are aneurysms of heat loss here.

Thanks again for the links, LJ. Will definitely look at those. And thanks EVERYONE for the input. I look at things on line and think "oh - how lovely" and when I start researching, it doesn't look as easy as it seems. You're right - it's a dream. I just want things organized, though and visible to me all the time - and hopefully the critters will stay away somewhat. I get tired of repotting and figuring out what label goes to what all the time.

I LOVE the cedar greenhouses. That would be PERFECT - I think. Then I could put in lots of hooks. And I LOVE the basewall thing of stone.

Jo, I just took a quick look through my folder of receipts and the total
cost was 6,300.00 and change. That includes everything from the
cost of digging footers, block, insulated knee wall...well, everything.
We also made our own benches, hanging rods. etc. However, we
didn't have to apply for permits nor have it inspected every whipstitch
during construction. In KY (or our county anyway), if one owns 10
acres or more, one doesn't have to play building codes, permits, etc.
There's some advantages to living in the woods!

Did see Jerry yesterday and he'll help me. Yippeee.!!!!

He knows this area and he knows what I grow and how I grow it and actually thought a swamp cooler type thing would be best. WHO KNEW a swamp cooler would be the thing in Mn.? Makes sense, though, because it would be so hot and dry in there.

And some big barrels along one of the walls (or both) and under the benches filled with H2O that actually heat up, maintain that heat for a long time and are good for temp drops. And he directed me to Charley's Greenhouses, which I checked out yesterday. Found several I really liked. Anchored, but he doesn't think a base will be that necessary here. Although I'll need to level things out, I would think and put down some landscape cloth/plastic and some kind of rock, block and/or stone/river rock.

Good people, those Fischers. I was REALLY starting to think this way WAY too expensive and difficult. Not necessarily so, although I will need help, that's for sure. Now I'm really excited about my new adventure.

Agian, thanks, ya'all.

WOOHOO! Greenhouse here comes jojo!!! I didn't think about a
swamp cooler either...good idea.