The Orchid Source - Orchid Forum

Yellow Cattleyas with red lips are often crippled. The reason seems to be the combined genetics of C. bicolor and C. dowiana, and the extensive use of their offspring (Iris, Mrs. Medo, Venus) in the production of modern yellows.

My question is, what yellow hybrids exist that are known for their stability and lack of crippling? As an aside, what yellow hybrids exist that have little or no C. bicolor in them?

C. Amber Glow (Derna x Anne Walker) seems to be the champ of these yellows, having very little bicolor in it (Mrs. Medo was used once and only in the Derna bloodline) and having garnered 29 quality awards including an FCC. It also has one cultural awards, which indicates to me a vigor and ability to bloom well on an older plant.

Pot. Free Spirit is a charming and heavy-substanced (if small) concolor yellow with 17 quality awards (5 in Australia).

William Stewart, Toshie Aoki, and Fortune also have more than 15 awards each, but include a large percentage of C.bicolor in their backgrounds. I'm certain their are many more like this.

I would include Blc. Harlequin (Act 1), and it's offspring, Jane Paton, as possible gems for producing yellows. Derived from Blc. Nugget (Palmyre x Luminosa), it has no C. bicolor in the background. Notably, the most famous offsrping from this line is Oconee, a large and very dark magenta-purple.


I was hoping someone with more experience could chime in and further this discussion? Andy??

Brian, you've mentioned this a couple times and explained whats behind it, but you have yet to actually explain what crippling is

Crippling can be anything from petal edges that are mildly warped out of plane to lips that are obviously misshapen. It may happen to only one flower on a spike, or to every flower on every spike. It can also appear inconsistently from one blooming season to the next. Influences other than genetics include high temperature, water stress, and insecticide or other chemical use.

How's that?

Ooh Brian, I think what causes crippling in yellow Cattleyas is very complex and I don't buy into many of the theories. C. bicolor is definitely a culprit and Brassavola digbyana is a wonderful antidote but likely there are other species causing problems. I have remade Lc Luminosa and treated it with oryzalin so maybe I will have another flutter with yellows, if I live long enough. Salinas is not the best place for dowiana offspring as they need a heated greenhouse here.

So, Andy, if you were to try and make a better yellow-red lip, what would you use? Would you use the stuff already out there, like Willette Wong? Or would you go back even further? You have already remade Luminosa, and you will not be able to have this and not put some pollen on it So what would you use?

BTW, I don't care about yellows with red lips per se. I think, however, that they are going to be a key player in producing pinks with white lips.

I think Brassos with concolor lips are most likely to be useful in your quest.

It's all very well to have a 4n Luminosa, then I have to have another yellow primary as a 4n to cross it with. Maybe a 4n from my cross of C. jenmanii and C. dowiana. That would give me a good % of yellows and improve the shape. But I will be leaving it to the younger generation to take things further, if indeed anyone has the interest!

Andy, don't give up on breeding yet. Nobody knows how much they are going to live. The farther you go with those crosses, the easiest it will be for whomever takes it from where you left. I know some orchid people who were planning and doing crosses till the day they died!
You and I are more or less of the same age and I don't plant to quit yet!!

Oh Irma,

I'm not planning to quit but I am concentrating my efforts! There are so many things to work on and all require time and space to grow the intermediate steps.

Hi Brian --- I came across a photo of C. Mossiae 'Drago' on the web, sooo beautiful BTW, and I just thought that this might help you in your quest for a pink with white lip cattleya in your breeding program...

Ah, ok. At least I do mostly Phals,( have started to breed with them again, at least ) which have a shorter turnaround time.

I have seen several mossiaes (and a few other species) that are concolor with a paler lip. They will all play a role somehow.

Andy & Irma (& everyone else) - What do you think of Alma Kee 'Tipmalee' ?

All the Alma Kees I have had have DIMPed! It seems that Catt just hates me. It has a nice lip but I think the rest of the flower is weak. I would prefer to breed with Blc Williette Wong 'The Best' AM or with Blc Chunyeah or better still with its parent, Blc Kuan-Miao Chen ( if you can find one ).

I have both Willette Wong 'The Best' and Chunyeah 'Goodlife'. I have seedlings amost ready to deflask of Chunyeah 'GL' x C. loddigesii v.alba. I am hoping to get something very similar to Mrs. Pitt, but with fuller form. My issue with both of these flowers are the yellow eyes in the throat, as I don't know if this will promote a strong disk of color in the lip of hybrids. As far as using them for yellows, I really want deep red concolor lips.

Not much Brian! I never was inspired to grow it. Now, Williette Wong 'The Best' is a fine yellow.