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#216749 - 11/06/09 06:30 PM Cattleya Disappointment!!!
Christian Offline
OSF Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 107
Loc: Central New Jersey
To all cattleya growers out there, I implore your insight.

I am posting to learn why certain cattleyas never fully open. For example, this week I have a "lovely" Blc. Sunyung Ruby 'King Kong' that refuses to fully open and stretch out its petals. The three flowers would be beautiful -- wonderful size, color, shape, fullness, texture, etc but the plant is worthless since the flowers won't fully open. It is so frustrating for me to spend so much energy all year long pampering a plant for less than adequate blooms. Sadly, I have a few catts that suffer this flaw – especially plants with Oconee/Chia Lin breeding are notorious for this (in my opinion). Locally, I have spoken to other catt growers who say that this just a flaw of this type of breeding.

Now my frustration comes when I know plants of this breeding have won HCC/AM flower quality awards. What are these winning growers doing? Stuffing styrofoam peanuts & wax paper between the petals for weeks? Other forms of flower manipulation? I just don't get it!!!

Is anyone out there willing to share their insight and suggestions on how to get the best out of these blooms? I would truly appreciate anyone’s insight.

Incase anyone is wondering… my growing conditions: southern facing greenhouse, night temps of 57, day terms rise to 85 on a strong sunny day before the exhaust system turns on, humidity remains between 75-95%.

I thank you in advance for any ideas/opinions you are willing to share.

Christian,
Central NJ
_________________________
Christian,
Central NJ

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#216767 - 11/06/09 09:46 PM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: Christian]
abaxter Online   content
OSF Platinum Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 10155
Loc: KY
Whenever I have Catt. Alliance plants that misbehave, I usually think
the plant(s) need either higher light or more hours of light. The best
Catts. I've seen have very light green leaves indicating LOTS of bright
light. OR you just happened onto really crappy plants with problems
before you bought them. Check your fertilizing schedule, quality of
your water and threatening them with the trash can. You might also
check for thrips...the little bastids can destroy a bud or opening flower
with lightening-like speed. Have you yanked any of them out of the
pot to look the roots over?

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#216773 - 11/07/09 02:09 AM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: Christian]
engineer Offline
OSF Member

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 107
"Blc. Sunyung Ruby 'King Kong'". Your suggestion that awarded clones exist is apparently incorrect if the grex doesn't exist in the registration records.

I find no grex registration for a Sunyung Ruby of any genus. I searched both the AQPlus awards data base and OrchidWiz in the widest of search terms without success. I have to assume that this is one of the mass produced hybrids for which quality is of no concern to the hybridizer. I guess I would ask where you got his plant and correspondingly what your expectations were.

In the case of Blc Oconee and it's offspring Chia Lin (both are Rlc now), they are reasonably flat Cattleya hybrids. None that I know of are completely flat. The awarded clones look good to me. There are some pictures on Orchid Wiz of (presumably) unawarded plants that seem less than totally satisfactory in terms of flatness, but it isn't possible to determine whether these have not yet opened fully or are just poor seedlings from the grex. I'm sure you realize that each seedling in a hybrid grex is different and some are not very good even in the best of crosses.

Hope this helps you understand the possibilities.

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#216792 - 11/07/09 06:21 AM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: engineer]
mini-catt lover Offline
OSF Gold Member

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 346
Loc: So. Cal
Many of these large Cattleya hybrids do not fully open flat. If you see pictures that are perfectly flat, they may have indeed been "pressed" or manipulated to be flat. This is a culturally acceptable practice in Taiwan.
They use wires and clear plastic to flatten the flower until they "set".

I've seen these pressed flowers at several shows on the west coast, when these Taiwan vendors show their plants!

Unfortunately, people buy the clones based on these spectacular pictures, then are disappointed when they bloom them.

Pete
_________________________
Please check out my many Orchid photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minicatt/sets/

and website about me:

http://diamondorchids.com

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#216794 - 11/07/09 06:31 AM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: engineer]
mini-catt lover Offline
OSF Gold Member

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 346
Loc: So. Cal
Originally Posted By: engineer
"Blc. Sunyung Ruby 'King Kong'". Your suggestion that awarded clones exist is apparently incorrect if the grex doesn't exist in the registration records.

I find no grex registration for a Sunyung Ruby of any genus. I searched both the AQPlus awards data base and OrchidWiz in the widest of search terms without success. I have to assume that this is one of the mass produced hybrids for which quality is of no concern to the hybridizer. I guess I would ask where you got his plant and correspondingly what your expectations were.




The correct spelling of this hybrid is Blc. Sanyung Ruby. It is a cross of Blc. Waianae Coast x Blc. Chia Lin. Registered in 1995. There is one AOS award to variety 'Kuang Lung' AM/AOS in 2001. It was awarded in Taiwan.

Pete
_________________________
Please check out my many Orchid photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minicatt/sets/

and website about me:

http://diamondorchids.com

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#216797 - 11/07/09 07:26 AM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: mini-catt lover]
CTrianaei Offline
OSF Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 50
Mostly these catts are usually "cupped" or sometimes the tepals curl lengthwise from what I've seen... Taiwanese vendors should provide a do-it-yourself kit/instructions for pressing the flowers to achieve what they advertise poke ... furthermore, I noticed that some Oconee offspring typically have flowers that only last for 2 weeks average (maybe the choice of the other parent plant affects it, I dunno)...

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#216847 - 11/07/09 06:39 PM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: CTrianaei]
Irma Offline
OSF Platinum Member

Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 10497
Loc: Puerto Rico
This is my Blc Sanyung Ruby 'Kuang Lung' AM/AOS and this is how it displays the flowers naturally. No manipulation needed. The other flower is just opening.





Blc Sanyung Ruby var Kuang Lung, AM_AOS2.jpg


_________________________



Contigo en la distancia........

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#216870 - 11/08/09 02:09 AM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: mini-catt lover]
engineer Offline
OSF Member

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 107
"The correct spelling of this hybrid is Blc. Sanyung Ruby."

Thanks, I looked all over for that darn thing.

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#216919 - 11/08/09 01:21 PM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: Christian]
Richard In SD Offline
OSF Gold Member

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 474
Loc: Encinitas, California
Here is a picture of my clone of 'King Kong' blooming normally without any manipulation to flatten it. It's petals are not flat, but acceptable enough in my opinion.



Blc. Sanyun Ruby 'King Kong'.jpg



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#216936 - 11/08/09 04:13 PM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: Richard In SD]
Christian Offline
OSF Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 107
Loc: Central New Jersey
May I ask... in your opinion, how long does it take these flowers to fully open? I got frustrated after waiting 4-5 days and broke down and stuffed foam peanuts between the petals to open it up. Maybe I am not waiting long enough.
_________________________
Christian,
Central NJ

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#216973 - 11/08/09 07:31 PM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: Christian]
Richard In SD Offline
OSF Gold Member

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 474
Loc: Encinitas, California
Christian, 4-5 days is certainly long enough for this clone. I've found that if temperatures are too cool, or humidity too low, or there is a rapid change in environment, these things can prevent normal development of flowers. Maybe next year will be better for you. If my memory is right, this clone is not very long lived.

Beyond environmental conditions, I'm sure you know there are many many cattleyas that have far from flat shape, no matter how well grown...it's genetic.


Edited by Richard In SD (11/08/09 07:42 PM)

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#217004 - 11/09/09 08:40 AM Re: Cattleya Disappointment!!! [Re: Christian]
wanker Offline
OSF Member

Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 71
Loc: San Diego, CA
Your cattleya needs more light.

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